My view on the crazy world today
How can a soldier choose.
Published on October 15, 2004 By Dysmas In Politics
So the Presidential elections are three weeks away. Oh boy.


According to Army Times, the vast majority of military personnel, across the Services, are planning on voting for President Bush.


I can understand why, Bush has increased Military Pay rates, gave the Military the authority to offer more and better incentives for re-

enlistment and so on. However, the simple fact that President Bush forced our Army to go to war, with Rumsfelds insistance that

we need only a few combat troops to secure Iraq and that Iraqi Civil Servants would stay in place and keep the country from

collapse, with very limited forces. Granted the Divisons that initally conducted the war in Iraq did a good job, many senior military

commanders insisted that we would need many more troops to secure the country AFTER collapsing the regime.


Bush went to war without a properly planned SASO (Stability And Support Operation) plan. Without an adequate rotation plan for

most of the Army and military in general. And sent a Division, the 101st Airborne Divison, to the Area of Operations, on very short

notice and expected that the Division would be fully combat ready when the time came. The White House also assumed that Turkey

would allow the 4th ID acces to Iraq through thier country, therefor opening up a second front wich would bring the war to a more

rapid and efficent close. Turky refused. By sheer determination and not a little luck, the 101st became combat ready just in time for

the war in spite of all the logistical obsticals not in its favor.




So the war begain. The expected revolt of the sheites upon our invasion did not happen. Not suprisingly as they learned a hard

lesson by our quick withdrawal after Desert Storm, which left them stranded and eventually severly punished for their actions.


Also the surrender, en masse, of Iraqi forces did not occur. So when we destroyed Iraqi Divisions and Battalions many armed Iraqi

soldiers vanished into the country side, either laying low or waiting for their chance to get back at the Americans.



The US assumed that with the fall of Saddam's regime most of the Saddam loyalist paramilitary forces would be dishearted and

give up. The opposite happened and after the capture of Saddam they increased thier insergency.


With the lack of troop numbers on the ground to effectivly guard the borders, many terrorists and terrorists groups arrived in Iraq

and begain operations. Just like the senior military commanders said they would.


The list of policy shortcomings can go on and on, but now we are stuck and I pray for the best.


Like a joke I read, it says of Bush " Im the one who got us into this mess, Im the only one who can get us out."


Despite all of the negative things the administration has done in Iraq, the military does like the fact that we have a president who is

determined and unwavering in his commitment to the mission and support for the troops.



On the other hand you have Senator Kerry. Right off the bat he is a "No-Go" for many service members simply for his anti-war

activities after Nam. Understandably, who would want some one like that as your Commander-In-Chief?


Another thing to consider is that the major religion in the military is Christian and of that almost 25 percent of service members are

Roman Catholic. John Kerry proclaims to be a Catholic but is not in line with the teaching of the Church. Now a politacian who

flaunts his Faith must be prepared to back it up with actions and be willing to suffer the back lash of their convictions.


John Kerry does not. Against his Bishop's, and the Vatican's, orders, he went to Church and recieved the Euchorist. All this AFTER

he declared that he was Pro-Choice and other violations of Catholic teaching. If a person is Pro-Choice and they are a Catholic

there is no problem, but if a person is Pro-Choice and is running for an office which has a direct influence on the issue, it IS a

problem. He is running for President, he declared himself Pro-Choice and that he would uphold a "womans right to choose" then

he was automaticly Excommunicated from the Church. He then ignored the Church's declaration of his status and went right along

proclaiming he is a Catholic while at the same time disobeying the Faith in which he claims to adhere.


How can you trust a man who says one thing and does another, without any thought or respect.


His voteing record and past statements also show him to constantly change his "beliefs" to better mach those to whom he is

speaking to. Basicly he is a liar, BUT he has a much better Domestic Policy than the current adminastration.


Obviously a soldier's home and family are important and regardless of thier job overseas, their main focus is the "home front" and

they would be inclined to vote for one who would better serve both their familys and thier nations domestic needs better.



Bottom line is that a soldier is a defender of freedom, but more than that a soldier is one who attempts to portray the best of

American values. So when we must decide between these two, it is very diffacult as they both, in different areas, personify the

values of Americans, we are forced to choose which value is more important. In fact they are equally important. It is a shame if we

do not vote and it will be a shame when we do.


Comments (Page 3)
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on Oct 16, 2004
Alas I forgot to mention, in regards to my book, due to the arguments posted here and they way in which they were presented, I would like to offer each person a free copy of the manuscript, and eventually the book, as a token of my appreciaton. Shortly I will post an email address SPECIFICALY for the purpose of exchanging information as to make this possable, and I will begin the exchange by responding to an email with MY contact information, which can be verified, to show that im not some internet psycho looking for kicks lol.
thanks
on Oct 16, 2004
Helping the poor is still a moral issue


It's actually a social issue.
on Oct 16, 2004

It's actually a social issue.


It's a social issue and a moral (possibly religious, considering how many religions stress altruism) issue then. Why should the government go into the business of charity? You might not agree with people who have no desire to help others, but you shouldn't force your morals (in this case, the moral of helping your fellow man) on them.


In a way, everything's a social issue, including abortion (unless murder [which some consider abortion to be] isn't a social issue).

on Oct 16, 2004
Well, my motivation for helping the poor is primarily moral, but it can be seen as a distinctly social issue and I could get into that for you, but it would take more effort than I am willing to give at the moment. I am too lazy to go there right now . . . later, though.
on Oct 16, 2004
In response to post #30 by Myrrander, yeah, I've been wondering about that Grim...come on, I think that having more than two parties is a good thing, so why don't you spread the good word? Hearing more from the third party camp is beneficial to all of us, you would do your party a better favor by speaking out on their stance rather than backing G.W. .

On a related note, if Kerry wins this presidential election he will suffer at the hands of the Republican legislature. The impasse wrought will disenfranchise both heavily conservative and largely liberal Americans leaving them looking for alternatives in 2008. That will be the perfect oppourtunity for third parties to take a real bite out of the vote. They should begin as soon as the new president is picked to attack the Big Two aggressively for the following four years, pointing out how the process is so flawed as it fails to adequately serve the needs of or truly represent Americans. If they can then get some electable candidates, they'll have their first real shot at growing their base, I know I would join them (possibly Libertarians) if they were able to show some organized competency and shatter the two party hold on America.
on Oct 16, 2004

How is it un-Libertarian to prefer Bush to Kerry and to acknowledge that the military prefers Bush to Kerry?


I have a question too. There are plenty of people on the "right" that are going to vote Libertarian here, but is there anybody in this community on the "left" that intends to vote for somebody other than Kerry?

on Oct 17, 2004
All I can say is that this election is looking like it will be a mess no matter who gets elected.
on Oct 17, 2004

forced our Army to go to war,


No one forced us to do a damn thing Dysmas. It is a volunteer force.

on Oct 17, 2004
greywar:" No one forced us to do a damn thing Dysmas. It is a volunteer force."

Thank you for that brillant insight as I am a member of that volunteer force. The phrase I used ".....forced our Army to go to war."
Was ment to imply that he DID force many elements of our Army, 101st ( my Division) and many NG and AR units, to go to a Combat AO on short notice and with very limited supplies.

I can direct you to the book "In the company of soldiers" by Rick Atkison, I believe, a journalist embeded with 101st, to prove my point.
Besides, I dont need to prove anything to anyone. I was there and I know first hand.
on Oct 17, 2004
And I think you may be wrong in taking a peice of my quote and posting it, it is not in context at all. Here is my statement in its entirety and in no way I am I saying, implying, or alluding to the fact that our military wasnt ABLE to go.

"However, the simple fact that President Bush forced our Army to go to war, with Rumsfelds insistance that we need only a few combat troops to secure Iraq and that Iraqi Civil Servants would stay in place and keep the country from collapse, with very limited forces."

The administration IGNORED the advice of most of the top military officals, namely Gen. Shenskzy ( I F'ed up his name I know lol ) And, as I said, thier calculations proved and still prove, correct.
on Oct 17, 2004
GX, why don't you drop the libertarian act and just admit you're a republican?


How about this Myrrh? Since this is a personal attack by you here are my thoughts on it: SOD OFF ARSE!

In response to post #30 by Myrrander, yeah, I've been wondering about that Grim...come on, I think that having more than two parties is a good thing, so why don't you spread the good word? Hearing more from the third party camp is beneficial to all of us, you would do your party a better favor by speaking out on their stance rather than backing G.W. .


What did my response have to do with sides other than that the military trusts Bush over Kerry?

Now if you want to go deeper you can talk about how there is little knowledge by the military about Third Party candidates and that they only know the two weasels in the Major Parties.

So because I post an Annenberg poll that was just adding some points to this thread I am Republican??

I think the personal attacks that you two have initiated have to do more with suppressing the information against your case than me.

Now you could also argue that with my military experience I was brainwashed into liking George Bush and such, oh well, have fun because you can count me out of that!

- Grim X
on Oct 17, 2004

Reply #41 By: Grim Xiozan - 10/17/2004 1:26:25 PM
GX, why don't you drop the libertarian act and just admit you're a republican?


How about this Myrrh? Since this is a personal attack by you here are my thoughts on it: SOD OFF ARSE!

In response to post #30 by Myrrander, yeah, I've been wondering about that Grim...come on, I think that having more than two parties is a good thing, so why don't you spread the good word? Hearing more from the third party camp is beneficial to all of us, you would do your party a better favor by speaking out on their stance rather than backing G.W. .


What did my response have to do with sides other than that the military trusts Bush over Kerry?

Now if you want to go deeper you can talk about how there is little knowledge by the military about Third Party candidates and that they only know the two weasels in the Major Parties.

So because I post an Annenberg poll that was just adding some points to this thread I am Republican??

I think the personal attacks that you two have initiated have to do more with suppressing the information against your case than me.

Now you could also argue that with my military experience I was brainwashed into liking George Bush and such, oh well, have fun because you can count me out of that!

- Grim X


Grim..... are you now or have you ever been a closet republican?

on Oct 17, 2004
Grim..... are you now or have you ever been a closet republican?


Now I may be a Former Republican that I do not deny but I left the Republicans because they lack the unbridled passion for Liberty that the Libertarians possess, that and the Christian strangehold on the Republicans would harm me, not to mention the fact that they keep giving aid to Foreign Countries who later turn on us.

'Give me liberty or give me death!
- Grimtrick Xenry
on Oct 17, 2004
On an off topic note. Grim Xiozan's statement that we give aid to countries that turn on us is interesting.
That issue goes back to the foundation of our country. My focus nation is France. France was our first ally and we bailed them out in two World Wars. ( we as in us and our allies, but WE liberated paris and hence, by proxy, France) Now they are against us. I found a cache of weapons in this school and there were FRENCH SAM missles!! Due to the sanctions THAT THEY AGREED TO, they still sold new weaponry to Iraq under the table. We also saved the South Koreans from the North, and they now want us completly out of thier country and do not, in any way support the war in Iraq. Hell there was a rally recently for the removal of all SK soldiers.
But we give aid to many, countries, enemies and allys alike, and no one seems to really appreciate it. Reminds me of this book I read a while back "Bravo Two Zero" by Andy McNabb. He was captured in Iraq during Desert Storm and he saw huge sacks of grain and rice stamped "US" on them. All the while Saddam convinced his country and others that the sanctions that we helped impose was detrimental to his country. Sigh, there are so many sides to a superpower's actions and inactions.
Its also true that most service members have little or no knowledge of the 3rd partys. ( myself included) mabye if the media were required to give equal coverage to ALL parties legitamly vying for office it would benefit us all.
on Oct 17, 2004
Its also true that most service members have little or no knowledge of the 3rd partys. ( myself included) mabye if the media were required to give equal coverage to ALL parties legitamly vying for office it would benefit us all.


Indeed.

As for the Foreign aid bit to all, if they bite the hand that feeds them, why feed them? Oh well.
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