Is Michael Moore "anit-American"

on Oct 23, 2004

As far as for oil.. why do you think we are in Iraq, Why are we not in Hati or Sudan.

Sorry to point out, you just defeated your own point. Sudan does product oil.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/sudan.html

I think Sudan would have been a much softer target if we really were only after the oil.

We are on a crusade and or SERVICEMEN are dying for religion.

I think that radical Islam is out to destroy all western culture (not just Christians). They have repeatedly said it again and again. I'm not Christian and they want to destroy me too. Call it a Crusade if you want, just because they have called it a Jihad does not mean we can't call it a Crusade. They are not talking just to “over come” like most Muslims would call it, they mean conquest and death.

Look reality in the face man, it is either us or them. I personally would prefer it was them that failed. If you want, I'll send you my copy of the Koran. Since your so eager not to fight them. This way you may have a very small chance of not getting your head chopped off for being an infidel. As you just stated "wake up and smell the coffee people".

That's My Two Cents

47

Grim Xiozan

on Oct 23, 2004

I think Sudan would have been a much softer target if we really were only after the oil.

That and Nigeria or Libya.

48

Dysmas

on Oct 23, 2004

Well well, so you feel that 18-19 or so year old service members are kids. Thats your opinion and you are intitled to it, of course as an active duty army soldier I completly disagree with you. "kids" join the military and grow up. "kids" dont vote. "kids" dont drive.
lets not get into the whole drinking thing its a waste of time. So while some may view the young, new service members as kids, they are not, at least not in the true sense. Lacking experiance sure but you can only gain that by gaining years. No one ive ever met in the Army considered themselfs kids. In fact the chain of command kept pounding it into us from Basic all the way to war. "You are not kids, you are responasble for your actions so do the right thing."

As for Lt. General William "Jerry" Boykin the deputy undersectary of defense, regardless of his position in the DOD, his opinion is hardly indicative of a real, state sponsored war between religions ( dying for religon). he obviously is a very, very religous man and so is President Bush. His statement too dosent hold that much water, how many of his words do? lol
If our military were dying for religion, wouldn't you assume we would all be Christians? And that if it was a religious war, why then do muslims go and die fighting OTHER MUSLIMS?
As ive said in my comment, which you did not mention at all, we have done many, many great humanitarian things in Iraq. The majority of them are muslims. If it were a religious war, we would do nothing for them. My friends who died in Iraq did not die for ANY religon. They died because, regardless of the politcs, they believed in thier mission, even if it was simply their own personnal priority to reach out and help the needy, oppressed Iraqi people.
I am highly insulted that you would declare that ( and the kids comment) you go to Iraq and see for yourself and dont except all that you are spoon fed by the media or other pundits. Media is a buisness, and really, who wants to hear about all of the good things we did and are doing over there. Shocking, destruction, flames and so on make the news. Simple farmers praiseing the soldiers for returning water to them and hospital workers overwelmed by us stocking thier hospitals with medicene, do not make the news. Unless you really look for it.
I have already dis-proved your oil comment so I dont need to get into it.
Why arent we in other needful countries....do you know our force structure? are YOU willing to pay higher taxes for the price of aid or peace keeping forces there. You know what forget it. your opinions are yours and I respect that, but I feel you are completly off the mark.

49

Dysmas

on Oct 23, 2004

Ahh yes, and for those service members returning from OIF. Call them kids. See what response you will get. In fact go check out Lt. General William "Jerry" Boykin the deputy undersectary of defense C Nobodys blog on that issue.

50

T B

on Oct 23, 2004

What I am about to relay have been documented on the Abc Nightly News as well as the Los Angeles Times (you can look it up if you dont belive me) Lt. General William "Jerry" Boykin the deputy undersectary of defense (2nd to Rummy)

ABC and L.A Times I'm sure that was objective journalism. Mr. Boykin is not 2nd to Rumsfeld (not even 8th or 10th) Paul Wolfowitz is the No. 2 guy (and doesn't quite sound "Christian"). Boykin is a Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence (under Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cambone...) and a 3 star General. General Boykin apologized for his comments:

Boykin Apologizes for Exercising His Religion

I am neither a zealot nor an extremist, only a soldier who has an abiding faith, Boykin conceded. I am not anti-Islam or any other religion. I support the free exercise of all religions. For those who have been offended by my statements, I offer a sincere apology.

Boykin added, I have frequently stated that I do not see this current conflict as a war between Islam and Christianity. I have asked American Christian audiences to realize that even though they cannot be in Iraq or Afghanistan, they can be part of this war by praying for America and its leaders.

As did President Bush

WASHINGTON – President Bush today repudiated the comments of a top Pentagon general who made speeches at churches casting the war on terrorism in religious terms.

Bush, talking to reporters on Air Force One as he flew to Australia, said he discussed the comments of Army Lt. Gen. William Boykin with Muslim leaders in Indonesia.
>"I said he didn't reflect my opinion," Bush said. "Look, it just doesn't reflect what the government thinks. And I think they were pleased to hear that."

Bush's comments notwithstanding, the Pentagon brushed aside congressional calls to temporarily reassign Boykin while an internal investigation into his statements ensues.

Freedom of religion happens to apply even to Generals. He made some ill-advised comments as do many people.

As far as for oil.. why do you think we are in Iraq, Why are we not in Hati or Sudan. Oh thats right they dont have any resources that we need so its not a worthy cause to go free those poor slobs.

Laughable and duplicitous. The UN just recently passed it's FIRST resolution on Sudan and has yet to apply any sanctions. In Haiti, Arisitide resigned in March 2004, the UN sent peacekeepers (some of which were US Marines), Aristide even claiming the Marines forced him to leave, in June 2004 the US turned command over to the UN (A Brazilian General).

Apparently you are either mis-informed or uninformed.

51

Dysmas

on Oct 23, 2004

Nothin to add on that point very "insightful" thank you.

52

Mobcoa

on Oct 24, 2004

Dymas - I am proud that your a solider and you should not take the offense to the young or kids comments. I have lost friends in Iraq 19 year old kids that signed up for ROTC to pay for college and payed with their lives instead. You seem to mix up frusturation with an administration that puts you and your friends and my friends in harms way for lack of support of the people that go do the job. You could not be more wrong.

We obviously have differnt opinions on leadership, reason for being there etc .etc. Regardless of those comments and if they were taken out of context or not They were said and it sends a terrible message to those that are in Iraq. Just like when the Sadam statute fell good goal bad way to do it with American Solider put a flag on his face...

I commend you for giving service to our country, but that does not mean I have to agree with the leader than gives your orders. I have never said that good is not being done. but you can hardly argue that their are many many more "humanatarian hotspots" that need our assistance that dont have oil in them, or muslims for that matter.

You are to be commended for your service to the country, but that does not let Shrub of the hook.

Citizen T - The fact remains he made those comments , and yes freedom of religion is granted to everyone. He fucked up when he made those comments in uniform imo. He was not speaking as a person but as a political head. He should have been terminated from duty for those comments. If he said Hilter was not a bad guy he would have been tossed asap. Same difference. He expressed opinion that has not shit to do with his job and crossed the line.

Laugh at the comment about resources but its not any secret that we tend to find "humanitarin calls" in resource laden areas. We are the world police when it is convient to us not when we are really needed. (WW2 not included)

To expose you folks to anything other than blind faith for George Bush is obviously an effort in futulity so if he losses and kerry sucks you can say I told you so in 4 years. If he wins which sadly I think will be the case, when the country turns to shit you can say Damn that mobcoa guy told us this shit .

I do love how with 9/11 the current admin has you all brainwashed to think that anyone that does not agree with them is unamerican or out of the loop with reality.

When you bury your friend mabye you wont think that GW is such a great guy.

53

Dysmas

on Oct 24, 2004

I dont think GW is a great guy at all.
Im absolutly not brainwashed, I speak my opinion only from experiance.
If people you know joined ROTC "to pay for collage" then they had their priorites off. Everyone knows that when you join the military you main purpose is war, every thing else, education perks included, is just extra. To serve is to serve.
It's sad that so many had to pay for this war with thier lives, but that is the case in all wars.
An american soldier may have put a flag on his face, meanwhile the Iraq crowd was hitting his statue with their shoes ( a sign of major disrespect) and chanting "God is great, Saddam is an enemy of God." The soldiers who toppled the statue only helped. It was not a decision of the commander on the ground. The people were already trying and we helped. Helped, I think that sends a good message.

but you can hardly argue that their are many many more "humanatarian hotspots" that need our assistance that dont have oil in them, or muslims for that matter.

Yes I can argue that there are far more humanitarian hotspots, places and issues that need to be addressed. Schools, hospitals, farms, buisnesses, factories, water for the population, power for cities. The list goes on and on. Those issues number far more than some Iraqi insurgents or Iraqi and/or forign terrorists. ( there is a difference I know

)
Im sure that in some, miniscule way, oil is involoved in those issues, but we dont use our oil, we use thiers and its only right that we do so, its their country. We dont charge them for the oil.
You know what the gas price was while I was in Iraq? the equivilent of 10 cents a gallon. 10 cents. what are our gas prices today? No way was this about oil. As for you comment stateing "..or muslims for that matter" I dont really know what you mean.
Im sorry for your loss, I assume your a teacher or close to those who make the decision to serve. And most importantly, thank you for your kind words about my service. I hate to "tout" it, but on these political topics its almost unavoidable.

54

Dysmas

on Oct 24, 2004

I dont think GW is a great guy at all.
Im absolutly not brainwashed, I speak my opinion only from experiance.
If people you know joined ROTC "to pay for collage" then they had their priorites off. Everyone knows that when you join the military you main purpose is war, every thing else, education perks included, is just extra. To serve is to serve.
It's sad that so many had to pay for this war with thier lives, but that is the case in all wars.
An american soldier may have put a flag on his face, meanwhile the Iraq crowd was hitting his statue with their shoes ( a sign of major disrespect) and chanting "God is great, Saddam is an enemy of God." The soldiers who toppled the statue only helped. It was not a decision of the commander on the ground. The people were already trying and we helped. Helped, I think that sends a good message.

but you can hardly argue that their are many many more "humanatarian hotspots" that need our assistance that dont have oil in them, or muslims for that matter.

Yes I can argue that there are far more humanitarian hotspots, places and issues that need to be addressed. Schools, hospitals, farms, buisnesses, factories, water for the population, power for cities. The list goes on and on. Those issues number far more than some Iraqi insurgents or Iraqi and/or forign terrorists. ( there is a difference I know

)
Im sure that in some, miniscule way, oil is involoved in those issues, but we dont use our oil, we use thiers and its only right that we do so, its their country. We dont charge them for the oil.
You know what the gas price was while I was in Iraq? the equivilent of 10 cents a gallon. 10 cents. what are our gas prices today? No way was this about oil. As for you comment stateing "..or muslims for that matter" I dont really know what you mean.
Im sorry for your loss, I assume your a teacher or close to those who make the decision to serve. And most importantly, thank you for your kind words about my service. I hate to "tout" it, but on these political topics its almost unavoidable.

55

Lee1776

on Oct 24, 2004

I have lost friends in Iraq 19 year old kids that signed up for ROTC to pay for college and payed with their lives instead.

This is in no way an insult. I hope your not a history teacher. Because after the first Gulf war it was general knowledge that the main objective of the military is to kill poeple and blow things up. If these 19 year old kids didn't know that, then they didn't get much education in contemperary history. Most poeple learned from that war that the military is not a collage fund. I am sure his ROTC professor clearly stated this the first day of class and offered them a chance to leave.

That's My Two Cents

56

Dysmas

on Oct 24, 2004

Lee1776:
Absolutly correct